Page One: HEAVIER THAN HEAVEN
came from a band tour but what are you saying with this title
about Kurt Cobain's life?
Charles: "You might be reading
too much into it. I wanted a title that was easy to remember
and that evoked the feeling you got from seeing the band. Heavier
Than Heaven was a nickname some British concert promoters had
applied to a tour Nirvana did with Tad—they called it that
because Tad Doyle was so large, and Nirvana’s sound was
so "heavy." I like how it sounded and clearly Kurt
spent a lot of time obsessed with heaven—his belief in Jainism,
a religion that believes in seven heavens and seven hells is
an indication of that."
Page One: I came away from the
book thinking that Kurt Cobain was a very complicated individual.
He was a walking contradiction Was he mentally deranged or did
he just want us to think that? Was Cobain one of the hardest
rock and roll stars you've written about? Why or why not?
Charles: "I also thought Kurt
was complicated and many of things he did in his life didn’t
make sense in the context of his life. But that is real life:
I think all our lives are like that and too many biographies
try to fit the facts to the myth. In intentionally wanted to
tell the story in all it’s complication. Addiction itself
is complicated: By it’s very nature, it is some small form
of insanity—that a healthy person would so much want to
escape. Yet it is a rampant disease within
our society and one that
may be part of human nature. I intentionally tried to avoid psychoanalyzing
Kurt in my book—rarely do I tell the reader what I think
of his mental or physical state. My job as biographer was to
tell the stores, not interpret them the way some psycho-biography
does. Still for the purposes of these types of interviews, I
think it is no exaggeration to say Kurt suffered some serious
mental health problems, including depression, addiction, and
several other dissociate maladies. A Freudian would have a field
day with this story. In the text however, I avoided such labels
and simply decided to tell the events and circumstances of his
life and leave the analysis alone."
Page One: Lets talk about Cobain
the artist -- In your book you describe some of his art work
as dark and complicated. On a scale from 1-10, how would you
rate his art work and what does his art work say about him? One
piece you described in the book was a picture of a boy fishing
who had cast a hook in his back. Briefly discuss this piece.
Why did he never title his art?
Charles: "I saw probably more
of Kurt’s art than anyone ever had other than Kurt himself,
since there were several different people who had his artwork.
As I describe in the book, it shows much talent and I thought
it was significant because it showed him to be an artist with
many different outlets—music and painting were just two
of his many artistic outlets. I don’t know that you can
rate art or an artist on a one to ten scale (how would you rate
Picasso on that scale?), but I do feel Kurt had talent and probably
could have had a career as a painter had he chosen that path."
Page One: Why did Kurt torment
Jessie, his best friend, during the 'pink apartment period'?
Charles: "Again, I tried to
avoid telling the reader the "whys" of Kurt’s
life—instead I wrote about what he did and let the many
contradictions stand. I think Kurt both loved and hated Jesse,
the way any close relationship has affection and jealousy. Kurt
also had a sadistic streak. It’s hard for us now to accept
that because those who were moved by his music want to identify
with him but there were many parts of his character—beginning
with his suicide—that showed him to be selfish, hurtful,
and torn with rage."
Page One: Do you think Cobain
was a musical genus? Is he a rock legend in the sense of Hendrix,
Lennon and Morrison? Where does he fit into the history of rock
and roll?
Charles: "I feel Kurt’s
songs will be remember long past the celebrity of his fame and
his brief place on the pop charts. I think the songs he wrote
were so full of emotion and risk, that they will mean something
to future generations. I’ve been surprised by how many young
readers this book has had and I think we are already seeing a
new generation discover Kurt and Nirvana."
Page One: Cobain had a fascination with
suicide -- You wrote that he said many times that he would, 'Never
live to thirty' -- Do you think his suicide was planned -- In
other words, no matter what or who, would Kurt have committed
suicide one way or another? Why did he want to die?
Charles: "Why he wanted to die
is of course the great mystery that even a biographer can never
really answer. What has pleased me about the response to my book
is that there are almost as many theories for that as there are
readers. I do believe that depression and mental illness are
hereditary and if you accept that then suicide was probably always
a possibility with his background. It is worth noting that there
were several other contemporaries of Kurt’s from
Aberdeen who never went on to fame but whose lives ended early
either from suicide or drugs. In some ways, the fact that he
stayed alive as long as he did, and accomplished what he did
musically, is more of a surprise. Despite the tragedy of his
death, I do see some heroism in his live: How many people are
born into his circumstances and go on to create such powerful
art from pain? In that way I think he lead a life that is to
be admired."
Page One: Was Kurt's stomach illnessa
contributor of his addiction or do you think he would have been
an addict anyway?
Charles: "That's hard to answer.
Clearly he argued that the drugs helped his stomach condition—some
of his friends felt that he was never off drugs long enough during
the last few years to know whether drugs helped or hurt his stomach
ailments."
Page One: Kurt referred to the
beginning of grunge music as, 'the last wave of rock music' and
the ultimate rehash.' What did he mean by this?
Charles: "I’d never try
to interpret what Kurt said about anything but it is worth noting
that after Grunge, rock has not been the dominant music form—rap
and pop took back over. One can only hope that the kind of manufactured
pop that Britney Spears represents will come and go faster than
Grunge did and we’ll see a return to music written and performed
by musicians who the kind of passion Nirvana brought to their
work."
Page One: Bob Dylan said of Cobain,
'The kid has heart.' What did he mean and was he big fan of Kurt’s
music?
Charles: "Again, there are minefields
in interpreting Dylan. He wasn’t an early fan of Nirvana’s
music but he did comment in interviews around 1993 that he liked
Cobain’s songwriting."
Page One: Tracy supported Kurt
before he made in big -- What became of her and did she have
any kind of relationship with Kurt after Nirvana's success?
Charles:"She and Kurt
remained friends, one of the few friendships he maintained throughout
his life. She lives in a city in Western Washington today, in the same
apartment she moved to when Kurt and she broke up. She never
profited from Kurt’s success, despite what I would argue
was her years of financial and emotional support for him. I was
very glad to be able to use some of her fantastic intimate photos
of Kurt in my book and to bring them to a larger audience."
Page One: It almost seems that
Kurt could foresee his future -- The pre-success self interviews
writing the bios. He even stated that Nirvana would be an Emmy
winner. Was this just wishful thinking or did Kurt know he would
be famous one day?
Charles: "Well he certainly
planned his future but for many years it looked like it would
never happen. Though my book has many bombshells in it, surprisingly
this is the one piece of Kurt’s character that fans have
had the hardest time accepting—the fact that Kurt wanted,
and in fact sought out, fame. But reading his notebooks you literally
can see his planning mapped out. I think he desperately wanted
fame and the attention it brought him—once he achieved it
though he didn’t know what to do. I don’t think fame
killed Kurt Cobain—despite this being a popular belief among
Nirvana fans and one Kurt himself suggested while alive. It was
both an elixir and a poison but Kurt had no choice but to drink
it."
Page One: If you had to compare
Kurt Cobain to any other legendary songwriter who would it be
and why?
Charles: "Well there are many
similarities between the story of Kurt Cobain and the story of
Elvis Presley—they both grew up poor and went on to become
the most popular performers of their generation, and yet died
young. In some ways Tupelo, Mississippi really isn’t all
that far from Aberdeen, Washington at least emotionally and culturally.
But I think Kurt’s story is similar to many other musicians
and creative artists—there are parallels but also many parts
unique to Kurt."
Page One:Why was the album NEVERMIND
(Ten times platinum) such a monster success? How did it change
music? Would Cobain still be on the charts today? Why or why
not?
Charles: "Critics are still
debating the impact of Nevermind and filling up magazine covers
with think pieces on why it was so important. I wrote another
entire book simply on Nevermind (Nevermind: Nirvana, 1998,
Schirmer Books) so I could go on and on about that topic. As
for where Kurt would be today, of course such a question is only
theoretical but I think he was a performer who would be doing
something interesting in some form. It might have been painting,
it might have been a different style of music (towards the end
of his life he was talking about leaving behind rock). But he
was the type of talent who would have found an avenue to express
what moved him. That we can be certain of if nothing else."
Page One:Do you have a favorite
Cobain written song? And if so why?
Charles:"There are so many that
move me it's hard to pick just one. My top three would be "Heart
Shaped Box," which has both incredible lyrics and a great
melody; "Polly," Kurt's best lyrics I'd argue; and
"You Know You're Right,"
which is unreleased an few people have heard it, so it's probably
unfair to list it."
Cross
served as publisher of the magazine from 1987 through 1995. Cross
is also the author/coauthor of four books: Heavier Than
Heaven: The Biography of Kurt Cobain (Hyperion, 2001),
Nevermind: The Classic Album (Schirmer Books, 1998);
Backstreets: Springsteen, the Man and His Music
(Harmony Books, 1989); and Led Zeppelin: Heaven and Hell
(Harmony Books, 1992). His writing has appeared in Rolling
Stone, Esquire, Spy, Playboy, Request, Spin, Spy, Guitar World,
Ray Gun, No Depression, Pulse, Creem, Revolver, Trouser Press,
and many other national and regional magazines. He is a graduate
of the University of Washington where he was Editor of The Daily.
Visit Charles on the web at